David and Sumbo

Posted by Yakuti in Archives | 4 views since Jan 31, 2012 | 2 comments

‘The Man after God’s own heart’ Pastor David and his lovely Virtuous Lady Sumbo Dada are the founders of Liberty Christian Worship Center (LCWC), located in Upstate New York. LCWC is hosting an event for women on Saturday, August 7^th (see details). I am honored and thankful to God that they found some time in their busy schedules to grant me this interview at short notice. Below, they share their hearts on how to lay a solid foundation before marriage and build on it during marriage, relying on the Holy Spirit for wisdom and discernment of  the tricks of the enemy.

Paula: How did you meet?

Sumbo: We met through a friend of ours. I was here; my husband was back in Nigeria. His friend suggested him to my uncle. The funny thing was [his friend] had not met me then, too. It was just miraculous.

P: How long have you been married?

S: We’ve been married two and a half years.

P: You were in Nigeria when you were introduced to each other. You recently moved from Chicago to New York. How did that change your lives and perspective?

Pastor David: When I was called into ministry at age thirteen, the first vision I got was strange, I saw myself in a white man’s land. Right from then I had the idea that I was going to travel. God confirmed it. I knew I was taking the right steps. It was different here than in Nigeria. Here, people don’t want people to come too close. In Africa, you’re walking on the streets, everybody greets everybody. Everybody looks after everybody. But here it’s quite different.

The part of New York we’re in is not as busy as Chicago. In Chicago my wife worked from 6am to 8pm. Here she works from 8 to 3. We have more time.

P: What is love?

S: Love in marriage is how much you can tolerate the other person. When I met my husband, yes, I had these emotional feelings for him, and that aspect is always still there. But it’s more than just emotional feelings. Here are two people that are raised differently, and you see some things that you were not used to growing up, in your partner. I see love as being able to give yourself to the other person, being able to sacrifice for the other person. It’s like a mother who has a baby and she claims she loves the baby; the baby is crying from morning till night but she is not there for the baby. It’s not just saying “I care for you,” – you see it in deeds.

P: So do you think love can pay the bills?

S: Well… (laughs) If you are married to someone who does not want to do anything to support the marriage, that’s not even love. If one person does not want to feel responsible for the upkeep of the marriage, if it is only one person taking care of things, that’s not appropriate. That’s not even love. Part of love is giving. If someone cannot [even] buy a gift for you before you get married, there is a problem. Say you meet someone and you’re trying to get married to this person. They may not be at their fullest potential at that point.

P: How important is it to a man, for his wife to remain attractive and be graceful even as she ages?

PD: It is very important. When God made Eve out of Adam and Adam actually gained consciousness, the first thing he said was “Wow, this is bone of my bones, flesh of my flesh.” He was able to appreciate the woman. It’s very important. It’s not about being lustful. The woman that you’re going to be with for the rest of your life – if you cannot truly appreciate her, it doesn’t make sense. There are many aspects in marriage; the physical, social, financial, but there is also the aspect of intimacy. It takes appreciation. If you don’t truly appreciate the person, how can you even get to that level? I don’t think it’s realistic.

P: Do you think God would tell someone to get married to a woman he is not attracted to?

PD: If God will ask you to marry someone that you’re not attracted to, God has the power to make that person attractive to you. Maybe it wasn’t love at first sight, but God will begin to open your eyes to see the beauty of that person. Anything you can call or define as a treasure cannot be seen on the surface. There are some people who have beauty inside of them. I’m not just talking about good character here. Some people need to take care of themselves. Some people need to say “Okay, this is the style that suits me most.” Once you’re able to find the style that fits you most, stick with it. The beauty is inside.

It takes people that can see to really live. A lot of people can’t see – that’s the problem. It takes vision for you to see your wife or husband. I’m not talking about a trance. God can show you your wife or husband that way but it takes the ability to see beyond what everyone sees.

There are some ladies, when they are not yet married or engaged, people don’t run after them. But as soon as they are engaged or married, people begin to run after them. Where were they before they got hooked? There’s a kind of joy, affirmation, a kind of glory radiating out of [them] and people don’t know why but they say “This lady looks attractive” or “This guy looks good.” Everyone that God made is beautiful and looks good. Some people get married out of sentiment, then they never find the woman attractive, so they don’t show love – and people begin to say “This man is wicked.”

P: Aside from adultery, is there any situation in marriage where a woman would be justified in wanting a divorce?

S: To everything, there is a beginning. Some women say, “This guy is not responsible, he goes out every night to drink, comes back and beats me up.” (Speaking hypothetically:) Here, my life is on the line. If I keep staying here, I might lose my life. If I die he might regain his senses, but I’m gone, and he gets married to another person. In the Western world we know that if that happens, it is abuse and the courts will try to get the woman out of the man’s house.

In most cases, the problem is the foundation is faulty from the beginning. That’s a tough situation. I will not say “go ahead and get a divorce.” I will go with what the Bible says at that point.

The first thing is the first thing. The best I can advise the woman is if it’s not safe for her to stay there at that point… what could be the reason for this? Are you the problem, is he the problem? The most important thing is to get help. It’s like two people that cannot see, walking together. How will they lead themselves? Even if the woman has to be separated at that point – I would think an intervention would be appropriate. The Bible does not say that if you marry a man and he says he doesn’t love you, divorce him. There are many people out there today that are in relationships that the guy is abusing her and they still go ahead and get married. Oh, please! What are we turning the Word into? And then later she wants to come up with a valid reason to leave this man. Or vice versa. The Bible says if the foundation is faulty, what can the righteous do? I would not advise anyone to leave his or her spouse for any reason than what the Bible says.

PD: Let’s look at marriage as a door that leads into a house. A lot of people don’t consider it well before they step through the door and get into the house. Maybe they feel like it’s a joke, “If the worst comes to the worst, I just get out.” Some just close their eyes. They say Jesus is the Answer for the world today. Whether you are born again or not, you still need Jesus. It needs to get to the point where even something as small as where I want to go this evening, I should hear from God, talk less of getting married to somebody. God always put it this way to me. “If I never asked you to get in, don’t ask Me, ‘God, should I get out?’ ” The Word of God is the manual for life. Some people are already separated in their spirit. It’s like putting a square substance in a round hole. Divorce is just a manifestation of what has already happened inside of them.

Be sure that this is the person, and that God asked you to get into it – then when the problem comes, go back to God. Don’t jump out because you don’t know what you’re jumping out into.

P: So how does a man know that a woman is supposed to be his wife?

PD: Marriage is not for boys, it’s for men. The difference between boys and men is just maturity. The Bible says as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are sons of God. It didn’t say they are children of God. They are sons – they are matured. The first thing is being led by the Spirit of God. A lot of people are misled; they think this is God, but it is not God. Just like we have physical senses, we also have spiritual senses. Just like we can perceive things in the realm of the physical, we can perceive things in the spiritual. Some people say “Something just told me that this is my wife.” It’s the Spirit of God but they are not aware that it is God that is drawing them to this person. I’m not talking about lust, but inner conviction. Inner peace. Watch out for confirmations. When you realize how important your life is, you don’t have a choice – you just have to build yourself up. People find it’s so important to build themselves for a career. Why don’t you build yourself for life?

Someone said, a broken relationship is better than a broken marriage, but a lot of people don’t want that. There was somebody that we were really in love, but a lot of times when we were going for ministration, I would hear “This is not your wife.” I would push it out, but I knew within that this was God talking to me. It happened [many times] – I always say I cried more than the lady when I told her we had to break up. But God told me “It’s not about now, it’s about the future.”

P: We’re always told that women should not pursue men. What happens when a woman is attracted to a godly man – perhaps a friend – but he is not interested? What should she do?

S: This is what I would do. As single ladies, many times, you see guys that are good looking and you wish he is yours. But he’s probably not yours. Or he could be yours. If you have any conviction in your heart and you know it is God talking to you that this person is yours – I would go to God first, I wouldn’t go to the man. When we pray to God, He hears us. I would say “God, let this guy notice me.” I would not go to the guy and tell him “I love you” or “God has told me that you’re my husband.”

PD: There has to be a connection.

S: Yes, there has to be a connection. I would pray “God, if you really are telling me that this man is my husband, open his eyes towards me.” I would not behave as if he doesn’t exist. I can find a way to get myself noticeable to him, but I will not go to him. There was a marriage where this man – I guess he was really shy – he prayed, “God, the woman You want for me, let her come to me and propose to me.” And that is what happened with his wife. This is the power of prayer. Let’s look at Mary, the mother of Jesus. She was living her life and the angel appeared to her and told her “You are highly favored among women. The Holy Spirit will come upon you and you will bear a child.” That is out of her control; the Holy Spirit is in control at this point. In this case, you have to be sure that it is God talking to you. I would search myself to know that I am really hearing from God. I wouldn’t just jump on that man. I would be friendly to him but I would let God take care of that aspect.

P: What is more important between trust and communication?

S: They are both very important in any relationship. Trust is quite powerful. It could be there, but the communication might not be adequate, and without that communication, a lot of things can come in. The Bible says that we should not be ignorant of the devices of the enemy, which is the devil. A lot of times the devil tries to look for loopholes and if the communication is not there, anything can just go wrong. Even as you are communicating, you have to have the trust in your partner. They go hand in hand.

P: Why do you think marriages don’t seem to last these days?

PD: There has to be commitment. I don’t want to sound biased but I think what used to keep marriages in those days was values. Marriage is sacred, people couldn’t just break up like that, so they stayed committed and they went through it. Even when they did not have the wisdom to deal with something, they hung in there. We are living in a time when they say marriage is not a bed of roses. You don’t just tell people marriage is not a bed of roses. Roses have thorns, even if it was a bed of roses. You need wisdom and you need the Holy Spirit. I would bring in Christ. There are times when the Holy Spirit is making you sensitive. He may tell you to go to your wife, “Go and ask her, is she okay?” She is not telling me anything yet, but I will just ask, “Are you okay?” She will say “I’m fine, I’m okay.” Then maybe a few minutes later she will come and open up and say “Something happened and I was hurt and…” “But I asked if you were okay and you said you were okay…” and I will explain that I didn’t mean it and all that. When you asked about communication – communication is important because a faulty communication can also destroy trust. You need the Holy Spirit and you need self-control.

The devil is really against marriages right now. The world needs to know it. My parents – my dad is late but when he was alive I watched them, their fights and everything and I would practically feel the presence of the enemy. I would know both of them were influenced. What the devil uses most of the time is emotion. Emotion is good but there are times you need to hold on to your emotions. Sometimes you want to say “I know my right,” or “I’m going to show him.” The devil sows seed and says “This man is not reliable,” or “Oh, can you remember what she said?” It takes the Holy Spirit to purge your heart and help you forget about those things.

These things build up these days and then it gets to a point where their cup is full and running over and that person is not going to go back. It’s terrible. People just one day ask themselves, “How did we get to this point?” It’s like a journey. They’ve been taking those gradual steps. That’s why small things really matter. Don’t say “It was just a little fight.” You need to take care of it. You need to communicate and program yourself to know you are human beings. A lot of people see the person they are going to marry as angels. Yes, she has the spirit of God but she is human. Someone said, “Before you get married, put on your glasses. Use your magnifying glass. When you get married, throw it away.”

P: Do you guys keep any secrets from each other?

PD: That is like cancer.

P: So you tell each other everything?

PD: Aaah! You are saving your marriage by telling everything. There is nothing you keep that will not come out. It’s just a matter of time. There are some things that you keep that would not have been so bad if you had shared it with your partner. But because time went over it, that person will say “Why didn’t you tell me in the first place? There must be something deeper!” And then trust [becomes] shaky. When someone doesn’t trust his partner, God forbid, that is the doorway out. Communication is important. There is a way you can say a lot of things without saying anything. My wife knows the relationships I’ve been in before I got married. Nobody can now come and say “Your husband, I know him.” She will say “I know you. I have not met you but I know you.”

P: But men find it hard to open up to their wives. I interviewed someone a few days ago and she says she knows of many couples where the wife does not know what the husband does at his job and so on. How can wives help their men open up to them?

PD: One thing is very important. I will say it in two ways. For the woman, like you said, she needs to encourage the man to open up. If each time a man says something little, she overreacts, it takes a very strong man to share something deeper with her next time. It takes a very disciplined and very strong man. The same goes for the man. At times when women want to advise you, they feel as if they are talking to their two-year-old son. I know she is saying the right thing, and I want her to advise, but I will take it easy. When your spouse stops advising you, because you can’t see everything, you are in trouble. What you want to achieve at the end of the day is for me to change. But for you to be able to achieve it, you have to know how to go about it. But even if she doesn’t do it the right way, I will still try. If you want your man to always open up, there are some things he is going to tell you, hmm! Just hold yourself. Even if you’re hurt, just go to God, “God, help me to express myself the right way.” Let the man understand. Next time, the man will be careful, he will not want to repeat it. Always encourage him to share. It is going to save your marriage. A married man of God was struggling to get out of a bad relationship. The Holy Spirit said “The only way you can get out is by telling your wife. Tell her everything.” He almost died, but he actually told his wife. After telling his wife, the grip fell off, because it was no longer a secret. The devil thrives in secrets, in the dark, in deception, in lies, in corners, in places that are hidden.

P: How can women avoid nagging?

S: (laughs) Well… the best way to avoid it is by praying to the Holy Spirit to help you. It’s a process. Just like my husband mentioned earlier, a lot of times [when] we try to advise our husbands, we talk to them like they are our sons. We women always feel like our husbands are our children. I sometimes refer to them as our firstborn. I think a lot of times it does not start out with us looking as if we’re nagging. We feel we’re doing the right thing. A lot of times we’re not nagging out of wanting to nag. I think it’s that familiarity, that expectation, it’s the way we are built. Men are a little different when it comes to that. My husband will not say “You should have done this!” He will say, “Why don’t you do it like this?” The best way is asking the Holy Spirit to help you because you want to be free talking to your husband, but at the same time, men might feel like you’re talking them down. And we really can actually nag. The way I’ve gone about it, and I’m still in the process, is saying “God, help me.” One other thing is self-control, especially when we see something that we don’t really think is right.

P: Did you have any perceptions before marriage that changed when you got married?

S: I always heard that after marriage, men change. When I am talking to ladies who  are about getting married I say maybe your partner does some things right now, but if he doesn’t do it the same way after you get married, don’t feel like he doesn’t love you or that he is loving you less. When my husband and I were courting, there were some things that I would not immediately think of saying I’m sorry about. You don’t want to keep from talking to each other especially having a long-distance relationship. When you’re courting you know he’ll call you first so you can afford to say “I’ll stay away a little bit.” And he would call back. But in marriage, I would not even want it to extend for another minute. It’s not worth it.

P: Which man in the Bible does your husband remind you of, and why?

S: My husband reminds me of David in the Bible.

P (joking): Is it because of his name?

S: It’s not because of his name. The Bible records David as a man after God’s heart. It wasn’t God just choosing David. David made mistakes, but he knew how to seek God. He laid his life down for God. Every step he took, he consulted with God (of course except when he committed adultery). My husband is a worshipper. My husband can be in the presence of God for hours. This is what he has built himself for. After a while I would say “I’m done!” But he taught me to get much deeper. He is a God-seeker. He loves God. That Presence, He doesn’t joke with it.

P: Pastor David, who does your wife remind you of, and why?

PD: This woman that is called the virtuous woman. The Bible says that because of her character and her nature, her husband will be recognized at the gate of the city. Those people that sat at the gate in those days were the decision-makers in the city, important people. My life is very hard-working, and it’s not as if someone is pushing her to work hard, it’s habitual. Sometimes I’m the one who says, “Go and rest.” A friend of mine called me one day and said, “Your wife is always in action!” I actually prayed for that. I know where God is taking me to and I said, “God, I can’t afford to marry just any type of woman.” I’ve heard of some men of God and their wives are so diligent in handling the things of God and handling the family and I specifically prayed and said “God, You are giving me a big vision. If You don’t want this whole vision to sink, You have to give me a woman like this. A virtuous woman.”

- End

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